tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7274757246538504796.post620258361174885325..comments2024-03-28T02:08:57.016-07:00Comments on Old Geezers Out to Lunch: Citizens of 4F, Sept. 19, 2013The Geezershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12132213545989946724noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7274757246538504796.post-13665435289695159622022-06-03T09:24:27.933-07:002022-06-03T09:24:27.933-07:00Great read tthankyouGreat read tthankyouLiam Shttps://www.liamsantos.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7274757246538504796.post-40598801929549959812013-10-01T15:35:48.007-07:002013-10-01T15:35:48.007-07:00No offense taken! In fact, I agree with most of wh...No offense taken! In fact, I agree with most of what you said. <br />You are right when you say our current and recent wars have not "dominated the moods and conversations" of Americans the way that Vietnam did. But, in my humble opinion, when considering only the "war" portion of our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, they are almost exactly like the "war" in Vietnam (especially Iraq). I say that because:<br />1. The U.S. military industrial complex got stinking rich off of them. Even more so now, because the military contracts out so much more. Even down to the level of running mess halls and driving trucks.<br />2. Our involvement in these wars was totally based on a false premise. "WMD" in Iraq and the "Domino Theory" or "Domino Effect" in Vietnam. Both were lies force fed to the American people to garner their support. <br />3. In none of the three wars, were or are we able to tell the difference between the good guys and the bad guys. They dress alike, they look alike and the good guys are terrified to tell us who the bad guys are.<br />4. We are not going to "win" any of the three wars. As soon as we leave, it all goes to hell. <br />5. We don't and didn't treat any of them as if we were in an actual war that we HAD to win.<br /><br />The world wars HAD to be won and we approached them (especially WW2) like our very existence depended on it. No doubt, the people during that time period, were our "greatest generation." <br /><br />I'm a former combat Marine, who spent 13 months in Vietnam. I used to not talk about it at all, but now I don't mind. I also don't have a problem telling some of the veterans from "my" war, to take the camos off, stop whining, get a job and STFU, because they are making the rest of us look bad. Not always a popular stance, but that's how I feel. Oh yeah, I bought the "domino" thing at first.Pat Tilletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17699973774273291205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7274757246538504796.post-73056403398658781322013-09-21T08:04:04.120-07:002013-09-21T08:04:04.120-07:00Excellent, thoughtful post. I'm a bit older t...Excellent, thoughtful post. I'm a bit older than you, 63, but I had a draft card and lottery number, too (339). I had a few friends and many acquaintances who where in Vietnam, and they are remarkably quiet about it. I've been to the Dallas VA with my wife (10 year Navy vet) and seen exactly those faces you describe. The volunteer army concept has changed the way we look at war. The affluent know they will never see military service if they don't want to, and most seem much more casual about war. Is this really a good thing? Maybe if we ALL knew we could be drug into it we might be a little more thoughtful about how we commit ourselves to wars.Lowandslowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08608734222483888884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7274757246538504796.post-20997233127006174102013-09-20T15:52:36.795-07:002013-09-20T15:52:36.795-07:00 Your post speaks with sensitivity and percepti... Your post speaks with sensitivity and perception. Indeed we have victimized our veterans, and seemingly have done so historically. We ask or demand their service in the most lethal and toxic of human engagements and then we too often turn our back or ignore their plight, their pains, and their war birthed demons. 30 years from now, I fear a cadre of particularly traumatized vets will indeed vex the society.<br /> Thank you for your observations. Your Citizens of 4F is an outstanding contribution to the public thought and compassion.Tom Cochrunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04046822056852446079noreply@blogger.com